November 6, 1999 Palace Class held by Hank
Opening Log
Rik: sorry, q attack
Rik: Nuha and I are from a new Gorean Palace, the city of Ar
Rik: hi Hank
FrOsTy: ok
Hank: welcome
Rik: come hon
GRACE: hey lilone
Danielle: hi lilone
Steed~m~: greetings lilone
FrOsTy: Hank, do alittle dance for us. lol
lilone: (((hugz)))
Rik: Nuha was just here, but poofed
Hank: :I don't dance :-)
Rik: hugs
lilone: saw that
Rik: didn't know if you did
lilone: Greetings everyone
Steed~m~: :too busy dodging anvils
Hank: !GYRITHE!!
FrOsTy: lol
Danielle: hi Gyrithe
GRACE: hey Gyrithe
Gyrithe©: Good evening all :)
Rik: I missed where Grace is from
lilone: Greetings Gyrithe
Gyrithe©: !HANKKKKKKKIIIIII
FrOsTy: Hiya Gyrithe
Rik: Greetings Gyithe
GRACE: Xquisite also
Rik: cool
Steed~m~: hi Gyrithe©
Hank: we'll give it a couple minutes for people to show up before we start
Rik: okies Hank
FrOsTy: like that av Gyrithe
Gyrithe©: Smile
Gyrithe©: thanks
Gyrithe©: do you want a copy?
FrOsTy: sure
FrOsTy: thx u
Gyrithe©: welcome
Hank: ok we'll go ahead and get started
FrOsTy: k
Gyrithe©: :am all ears :)
FrOsTy: No hank is all ears
Gyrithe©: No...he is a big mouth :)
Gyrithe©: :His ears is only camoflace
FrOsTy: what format will we use here Hank
Hank: we usually start with everyone sayin their name and what palace they're from
Hank: for the log
Danielle: Danielle from Xquisite
Gyrithe©: I am Gyrithe, I am the owner of Utopia
GRACE: Grace from Xquisite also
Hank: :don't be shy people :-)
FrOsTy: FrOsTy, owner of Riverspirits
Steed~m~: Steed~m~, Islands In The Stream wizard
Rik: Rik and lilone from Ar, a City of Gor
Gyrithe©: My shoe size is 37
lilone: *smiles*
Hank: ok small class - makes it easy :-)
Hank: first a couple announcements
Hank: Number 1 - Gatekeeper
Hank: the gatekeeper plugin we got from Communities.com caused a lot of problems
Rik: wb Nuha, Hank Nuh@ is with us at Ar
Hank: we have rewritten our own from scratch and it is now available
Hank: ok
Gyrithe©: ^q
Hank: anyone not know what gatekeeper is?
FrOsTy: How many use it?
Gyrithe©: :Q means I have a question
Hank: yes Gyr?
Rik: i am sorry to say i don't know what it is Hank
Gyrithe©: Have you solved the prob with AIC not beeing able to access godmode
Hank: yes
Gyrithe©: unless you are blessed
Hank: ok - Gatekeeper is a plugin that allows you to "register" your wizzes and gods
Hank: anyone who is not on the list cannot wiz or god up - even if they know the password
Rik: excellent
Hank: it covers things like when someone accidentally blurts out the password
Gyrithe©: But AIC can?
Hank: yes - the techs here are all on the master list
Gyrithe©: Great
Gyrithe©: :I think I will install it then :)
Hank: there is a master list for us and a private list for your palace
Rik: where do we get the new program
FrOsTy: PUID and Reg Hash the keys then
Gyrithe©: very good
Hank: reghash is what it keys on
Hank: we'll be adding gatekeeper as a link from the user utility page on Monday
FrOsTy: sounds good
Hank: it will tell you how to turn it on and how to use it
Rik: kk
Hank: ok second - listserv
Hank: we're getting the hardware for a chatserve list server on Monday
Gyrithe©: )applause
Hank: we'll be setting up a mail list so everyone with a chatserve palace can talk
FrOsTy: thumbs up
Hank: trade ideas, ask questions, report hackers, etc
Gyrithe©: :Very good
Hank: look for the instructions to come out next week
Hank: ok and the last announcement is about lag
Hank: we have been seeing some congestion in one of our main feeds the last few days
Hank: we are reorganizing our connections to reduce that
Hank: you may have been seeing some lag the last few days
Gyrithe©: :Have not had probs at Utopia with lag lately :)
Hank: we hope to get it corrected this week
Rik: minor lag, not serious
Hank: the particualr problem we have been seeing would effect a small percentage of visitors
Hank: but we're getting it fixed
Rik: i was wondering about that
Rik: some tell me they are lagging when no one else is
Danielle: yes
Hank: well some people will always lag
Hank: I can't fix the whole net :-)
Hank: :especially AOL
Rik: smiles
Danielle: *S*
Nuh@: May be dependant on the amt. of hops too
Hank: after the class I'll be doin a quick class on traceroutes and finding lag sources if anyone wants to hang around for that
Gyrithe©: :last time I lagged and did a trace...I had 10 hops that did not answer the ping at all
Hank: oh ya - 1 more announcement
Nuh@: But we cant do anything about it from our comps, right?
Hank: PH from Communities.com will be here at 5PM to talk about the hacked client and security issues
Gyrithe©: How mamy hours is that from now??
Gyrithe©: many
Hank: Nuh - you can find where the lag is coming from and who to yell at :-)
Nuh@: *S*
Hank: that's a little under 5 hours from now
Gyrithe©: :2 am than
Hank: :sorry :-)
Hank: he set the time
Gyrithe©: :thats life
Steed~m~: 8pm here
Hank: ok I don't have any set program here
Hank: anyone got a topic they want to talk about fire away
FrOsTy: Prop mantenance
Gyrithe©: html
Gyrithe©: :My webpage is a mess
Hank: :that's a different class Gyr :-)
Rik: nods at Gyrithe, yes
Gyrithe©: :too bad
Rik: when is the class Hank
Hank: I could try to put one together
Gyrithe©: you should set up some webpage classes hank
lilone: one that lil should attend *smiles*
Rik: need for lilone to learn how to use the webpage
Hank: ok prop maintenance
Hank: !CS!!
Rik: hey Cool
.«oolßhade.: !Hank
Gyrithe©: hi cs
Hank: Everyone - meet CoolShade
.«oolßhade.: Hi Rik
GRACE: hey cool shade
Steed~m~: hi cool
Danielle: hi CS
.«oolßhade.: Hey Gyrithe..ltns
FrOsTy: Hey Cool
Nuh@: Hy Ya
.«oolßhade.: Hello Steed
Gyrithe©: Smile
.«oolßhade.: Hi Nuh
lilone: Greetings CoolShade
Hank: yur timing is amazing CS
Gyrithe©: sure have been a long time cs
.«oolßhade.: Hi lilone
.«oolßhade.: why's that Hank
Hank: CS runs Enclave - a new chatserve palace - and he is the smartest guy about props I know
.«oolßhade.: :I have lousy timing
.«oolßhade.: naaa
.«oolßhade.: just the most obsessive compulsive
Gyrithe©: :Cant beleave anyone is smarter tham I with props ;)
.«oolßhade.: No...you are great G
Hank: do you have any specific prop questions Frosty or shud I just ramble? :-)
Gyrithe©: LOL
.«oolßhade.: :I know that from LONG time
.«oolßhade.: :and Hi Danielle Grace and Frosty
FrOsTy: Does everyone go thru theirs with a clean prop bag to reset the stamp
.«oolßhade.: I do
FrOsTy: I hear the new server code will stop this need
Gyrithe©: I do that to check they are all there
.«oolßhade.: regularly
.«oolßhade.: :I hope so
FrOsTy: thats very time consuming
Hank: the purpose of going thru with a clean prop bag is not mainly the stamp
Gyrithe©: When do AIC plan on upgrading?
.«oolßhade.: the time date stamp won't change on a prop
.«oolßhade.: unless you edit it
FrOsTy: what is the default flushprop time on our server setting with AIC
Hank: going thru with a clean prop bag i the ONLY way to see the true condition of your server prop file
.«oolßhade.: :or rename it
Gyrithe©: I use the virginbag to make the server remember how my props looks
Hank: the default is 29 days
.«oolßhade.: yes...
FrOsTy: that answers my q
.«oolßhade.: I use a refresher script...I go through mine when I'm not there
Hank: as for 4.4 - we've finished lookin at it and we have a couple minor bugs to work out with CC
FrOsTy: can u share that Cool
.«oolßhade.: of course....
.«oolßhade.: anyone can have it
Gyrithe©: I would love to see it cs
.«oolßhade.: it uses as a base the old script from Hideout
FrOsTy: needs to be unattended for sure
Hank: CS's scriptwalks through the prop rooms while he's asleep and does the refreshes for him
.«oolßhade.: right
.«oolßhade.: I just set it to run
.«oolßhade.: and leave
.«oolßhade.: :I'm lazy
FrOsTy: share please before we leave
Hank: does everyone here have prop rooms?
Steed~m~: yep
Gyrithe©: I have some
GRACE: yes
Rik: yes, we are adding 4 of them
Gyrithe©: :About 20
.«oolßhade.: not all of them would work with my script
Hank: does anyone not know what flushprops and purgeprops is?
.«oolßhade.: but a script could be written for any of them..I suspect
Rik: do it often
.«oolßhade.: I purge often...flush sometimes
Gyrithe©: I never purge
.«oolßhade.: I NEVER flush until I have been through my rooms
Hank: does anyone not understand the idea of refreshing props?
Hank: and why it's importtant
FrOsTy: explain the difference between the 2 commands please
Nuh@: I only know that it has to be done
Rik: how often do you hae to refresh
Hank: ok there's only a small difference
Hank: purgeprops cleans out the prop file in memory
Hank: flushprops does that and then writes it to disk
.«oolßhade.: right...
FrOsTy: what order do u recomment from AIC
.«oolßhade.: :and that can make a big difference
FrOsTy: recommend
Hank: if you have prop rooms and you do not refresh your props - a purge or flush will kill your prop rooms
.«oolßhade.: yes
FrOsTy: so dont wait until the 29th day
FrOsTy: or its too late
.«oolßhade.: I think the most basic thing is to understand how the propbag system works
Hank: both purge and flush work off of the amount of time since the prop was last "shown"
Gyrithe©: :I usualy flush once a week
Rik: to refresh, you just put the prop on, correct?
Hank: no Rik
Gyrithe©: :more often when its more busy
.«oolßhade.: no..
.«oolßhade.: right
Hank: ok - the prop bag concept - you wanna do it CS? :-)
.«oolßhade.: hahaha
FrOsTy: with a clean default prop bag
.«oolßhade.: :he trusts me??
Hank: :of course
.«oolßhade.: when you "see" another person's prop...
.«oolßhade.: your prop bag will "store" that prop in memory
.«oolßhade.: and...if you see MANY props..you will have a very large bag
Rik: on client or server
.«oolßhade.: both...
Rik: kk
.«oolßhade.: your own palace.prp bag does it too
.«oolßhade.: you also have those you have SAVED into your bag
Rik: knew that, wanted to make sure you were talking about server
Hank: the server prop file saves every prop anyone has worn on the server
FrOsTy: a hidden and viewable side to the bag
.«oolßhade.: right
Hank: your prop bag stores every prop you have seen on any palace
.«oolßhade.: the SERVER doesn't have the MACRO bit or the STORED prop bit
.«oolßhade.: only the "remembered"
FrOsTy: http://www.finchnest.com/house/sptname.html good reference for this topic
Captured a URL, see log.
I have captured a possible WWW address from FrOsTy: "http://www.finchnest.com/house/sptname.html good reference for this topic"
.«oolßhade.: it does that so that you don't have to download the prop every time you see the person again...
.«oolßhade.: and the same is true of the server
Hank: :that means the server dosen't know a particular prop is associated with a prop room
.«oolßhade.: right
.«oolßhade.: your server propfile doesn't read your dat file
.«oolßhade.: it doesn't KNOW you want to save anything
.«oolßhade.: and...
FrOsTy: u can actually recall lost props from your client bag if named
.«oolßhade.: if they haven't been CALLED from the server before the time to flush...they will be lost with the flush
.«oolßhade.: now ...when you go in to your palace
.«oolßhade.: with your regular bag on
.«oolßhade.: your CLIENT has already SEEN those props
.«oolßhade.: so they will be called first by your CLIENT from your CLIENT prop bag
.«oolßhade.: not from the server
Hank: :which means if the prop looks OK to you it may actually still be screwed up on the server
.«oolßhade.: and that will NOT 'refresh' the prop in your SERVER bag
.«oolßhade.: right
.«oolßhade.: you may see it fine
.«oolßhade.: even if it isn't THERE on your server
.«oolßhade.: others won't see it
Hank: or it may look screwed up to you and be fine on the server
.«oolßhade.: because your client first checks your client propbag to find it..
.«oolßhade.: if it doesn't find it...it will '
.«oolßhade.: it will 'ask' the server for it
.«oolßhade.: that's why you must use a raw (empty) propbag on your client to refresh
Hank: so the only way to truly see the state of your server ptrop file is to use a "virgin" bag when you walk your props
Rik: got it. thanks
.«oolßhade.: after you have refreshed...and everything is there...THEN you can flush or purge...
.«oolßhade.: Also....
.«oolßhade.: even saving a prop in a hidden room will NOT work
FrOsTy: purge doesnt reduce the size of the prop file correct?
.«oolßhade.: unless you go by to see it
FrOsTy: but flush does
Hank: correct
FrOsTy: its memory vs disk maintenance
Hank: right
.«oolßhade.: basically
FrOsTy: glad I work in the field, lol
Hank: also - flush will lock all server activity while it runs
.«oolßhade.: right
.«oolßhade.: you can tinker with a dat file all you want...
Hank: everyone will be totally lagged
.«oolßhade.: but you can't tinker with the prop file while activity is going on
Rik: question please
Hank: go ahead Rik
FrOsTy: can we reduce our server max connections for this maintenance window
Hank: it only takes a couple minutes Frosty - tops
Rik: to get a virgin propbag, can i just rename client palace.prp file
.«oolßhade.: :don't need to
Rik: then name it back after refresh
Hank: yup
.«oolßhade.: yes
.«oolßhade.: you can download a 'replacement' from the Palace webpage
FrOsTy: or download one from palace
Rik: so then there is no palace.prp on client, right
.«oolßhade.: I am obsessive
Hank: you can get a clean bag from the palace webpage
Hank: yes - there is
.«oolßhade.: I delete all of the guest props
.«oolßhade.: then compress THAT one
.«oolßhade.: also...
.«oolßhade.: since some will ALWAYS corrupt
.«oolßhade.: I take a cleaned out bag
.«oolßhade.: and save every single prop I have on it
Hank: :he's VERY compulsive :-)
FrOsTy: I agree
.«oolßhade.: I have about 1700
.«oolßhade.: it doesn't take THAT much space
Gyrithe©: :I have all my prpfiles stored on cd's
.«oolßhade.: I use zip disks for backups...but really...it's only about 17-18 MB
Hank: that's an important part - sometimes your server prop file can become corrupted - or ceratin props in it
.«oolßhade.: right
Hank: and the only way to fix that is to zero the file and refill it
.«oolßhade.: if, when I run through them, I find one messed up...
Hank: and the best way to refill it is from your prop bag
.«oolßhade.: I go BACK with that saved backup and restore it
.«oolßhade.: it's really easy to do
.«oolßhade.: you just rename it...or edit one pixel...
.«oolßhade.: and that restamps it
.«oolßhade.: then...
.«oolßhade.: I replace the prop ID number in my dat file
.«oolßhade.: I do that in authoring mode usually.
Hank: everybody understand the concept of the memory copy and the disk copy of the files?
.«oolßhade.: right...
FrOsTy: good idea to save the generator script with all the ids in it too?
.«oolßhade.: that's just in my dat
FrOsTy: true
Rik: can i ask about generators since Frosty brought it up
Gyrithe©: I backup my datfile every time I have done changes
.«oolßhade.: absolutely
Rik: i have an old one. are they basically all the same
Hank: ^nature call
.«oolßhade.: :the first 3 rules of computing
.«oolßhade.: :backup backup and backup
Gyrithe©: :and backup
.«oolßhade.: lol
FrOsTy: I use one that holds 50 and has the forward, back & reset
.«oolßhade.: running through the props with a virgin bag will put the props into the MEMORY section of your client bag...
Rik: are there different generator scripts out there or where do you get a good one
FrOsTy: there are different ones
Gyrithe©: I have learned that 50 is usualy too many pr room
.«oolßhade.: but saving each one using the SAVE button puts it into the "hard copy" section
.«oolßhade.: there are many generator scripts...from simple to complex
Gyrithe©: :makes the scripts usstabile
Steed~m~: we keep ours at around 30 porps
.«oolßhade.: Hex has some on his webpage
Rik: so what limit on number Gyrithe?
.«oolßhade.: I have some with well over 100 props
Gyrithe©: I only use max 30
Hank:
Rik: where do i find a script with 30 max
FrOsTy: wb hank
.«oolßhade.: the older servers didn't like more than 30
Gyrithe©: depending of which props it is
Rik: i don't know Hex
Hank: thks
Rik: wb Hank
Steed~m~: wb hank
Gyrithe©: :More props pr room if small ones
.«oolßhade.: but I have no trouble with 50 in most rooms
.«oolßhade.: right Gyrithe
FrOsTy: Rik, I'll share the one I use
Rik: thank you Frosty
Rik: very mcyh
Hank: the limit is 16K worth of scripting per room
FrOsTy: np
.«oolßhade.: I can fit 150 little miscellaneous props in one room
Hank: if you exceed that the servder crashes
.«oolßhade.: but only 30 to 50 large ones...
.«oolßhade.: right
Hank: and you get the ROOM TOO BIG error
.«oolßhade.: used to be 12 K
.«oolßhade.: but now it's better
Gyrithe©: :150 small = les than 20 big ones....
.«oolßhade.: most avs are 6 props
Gyrithe©: :Should give no probs :)
.«oolßhade.: the simple way to check...
Hank: :Gyr is gonna help me do a script library here
Rik: so by 30, you mean 30 6 piece avs
.«oolßhade.: is to cut and paste any room that you are worried about
Gyrithe©: :I jump when you yell Hank :)
Hank: :yell
.«oolßhade.: save it into a txt file with Editpad or whatever
Rik: lol
Hank: :cool :-)
.«oolßhade.: and see how big it is
Rik: can't you tell by the user utilities page, room size
Hank: there is a utility on the user utility page that will measure the script size of all your rooms
.«oolßhade.: I find 50 is about as many as I dare on "real people" avs
Gyrithe©: :You know my email hank...lets get started soon
.«oolßhade.: :yes...WONDERFUL page BTW Hank
Hank: yes Rik - that's what it's for
Hank: :thks
Hank: :I didn't write any of it :-)
.«oolßhade.: LOL
Hank: anyone got any more prop questions?
.«oolßhade.: I just moved over to accesscom...
FrOsTy: I just looked at my room sizes
Hank: :welcome CS :-)
.«oolßhade.: and was able to restore all but 17 avs
FrOsTy: and the biggest with 50 is only 7k
.«oolßhade.: of my 1700
Gyrithe©: :I have been here almost an year
Rik: :almost a month
.«oolßhade.: :and I have those somewhere on a disc
Hank: ok I wanted to talk about a problem we been seein a
lot lately
Hank: anyone restarted their servfer and lost rooms?
Gyrithe©: :one time...loooong time agop
.«oolßhade.: Frosty...my rooms are perhaps larger...because I have numbers that you see...and other scripts in every room
Nuh@: I have
Hank: :OK I won't talk about it :-)
Gyrithe©: :I had an error in my dat, after editing it manualy
.«oolßhade.: :if I ever did it was because of a cotton-picking extra quotation mark
lilone: please excuse...be well everyone
.«oolßhade.: bye bye lilone
Hank: :or carriage return
Nuh@: I have found that it was a lost Bracket
Rik: bye hon
.«oolßhade.: :I hate curly brackets
Rik: hugs
Hank: ok I see everyone understands this bug :-)
Hank: bye lil
Gyrithe©: bye lilone
Hank: ok anyone got any other favorite topics?
.«oolßhade.: I will be glad to let anyone see my rooms and scripts...I can put up my testpalace..
Gyrithe©: Html ;)
Gyrithe©: that would be nice cs
FrOsTy: Not sure I followed that last bug reference Hank
Hank: the lost rooms bug
FrOsTy: with a restart
FrOsTy: test
Gyrithe©:
Danielle:
Nuh@: am I here?
GRACE: lol
Rik: no Nuh@
Rik: you are gone
Nuh@: thought I was lol
Rik: lol
FrOsTy: time warp
Hank: you have a question about the lost rooms bug?
FrOsTy: Explain it again quickly
FrOsTy: Was reading log
Hank: ok - if you make an error in a script in a room...
FrOsTy: k
Hank: when you restart your server the rooms after the error are lost
FrOsTy: k
Nuh@: but it loads that bad room
Hank: yes Nuh - exactly
Nuh@: so you know where to look
FrOsTy: correct
FrOsTy: I seem to get alot of doors/spots to go away when authoring them
Hank: because of this bug we cjhanged our server start script so that it saves offf the dAT FILE WHEN YOU START
.«oolßhade.: the disappearing door bit..
Hank: that's a different bug
Nuh@: that's why if I do a haevy scripter room I Dupe it first and work on the dupe
FrOsTy: yes, must name it first I find CS
Gyrithe©: :I HATE poofing doors :(
Hank: the door problem is a bug in the PC client
Nuh@: then it its the last room
FrOsTy: I agree A DUP room helps
FrOsTy: saves time
Nuh@: yep
.«oolßhade.: that is one of the worst annoyances..
Hank: I'm thinkin of putting a door utility on the user utiliy page
Gyrithe©: :And exploding doors too
Hank: exploding doors?
.«oolßhade.: going to a room after a long hiatus...and finding doors sliding off or gone
Gyrithe©: yes...then the room looks like spagetti
.«oolßhade.: hahaha
.«oolßhade.: yeah
Nuh@: hat when you lose a door have to find a mac lol
FrOsTy: getting hungry here
.«oolßhade.: I find...most of the time
.«oolßhade.: if I just do everything very slowly
Hank: the door problem is basically this
.«oolßhade.: things don't mess up
Hank: every door has a property called OUTLINE
FrOsTy: if u go back and recreate with same ID
.«oolßhade.: :blame it on lag
Gyrithe©: :true...working slow helps
.«oolßhade.: :basic OOPS
Hank: it's sposed to contain 4 points - all within the confines of the screen
FrOsTy: keyword suppose
Hank: bad doors either have an incomplete set of points or points that are way off the screen
Nuh@: yeak thats where you put it but---
Gyrithe©: :One thing I realy miss often, is to be able to dupe a door
.«oolßhade.: :OOPS (object oriented programming stuff)
Gyrithe©: :it would save so much time
Rik: me too G
Rik: would be great
Hank: does anyone here actually look at their dat file?
Rik: Hank is there a limit to number of doors in a room?
FrOsTy: yes
.«oolßhade.: Hank...I find that my door points somehow get wierd numbers
Steed~m~: yep
Hank: not that I know of Rik
.«oolßhade.: :I look at mine ALL the time
Gyrithe©: I almost look in my datfile daily
Rik: i do Hank
Rik: easier to repair it than find lost doors
Hank: does everyone know you have to shutdown before you play with the dat file?
Gyrithe©: :And I often edit it directly
FrOsTy: yes
.«oolßhade.: I usually edit directly
Gyrithe©: Yes, ofcourse :)
.«oolßhade.: duping rooms and things
Hank: :ok :-)
Nuh@: Question?
.«oolßhade.: I don't like to do too much authoring when people are around
.«oolßhade.: :hence ... the testpalace
Hank: another real bad way to mess up is to have more than one person autoring at the same time
.«oolßhade.: yes....
FrOsTy: never do that
Gyrithe©: :I use my littl pserver to do test on
Hank: that will really screw things up
FrOsTy: have staff page before going in
Rik: :was wondering about that
FrOsTy: limit who can
Gyrithe©: We use an easy rule at Utopia...
Hank: always tell others when you are authoring and make sure noone else is in author
Gyrithe©: When anyone author we add Authoring to our name
Rik: good idea on page
.«oolßhade.: :we have an easy rule...we have no wizards..
Hank: you can also limit who can author
Rik: oh good Gyrithe
Rik: like that
.«oolßhade.: yes...that's good.
Rik: how Hank
Hank: great plan Gyr
FrOsTy: setrank command?
Hank: anyone not know about the setrank command in the new version?
Rik: i do not
Gyrithe©: I wish I could set author allowed to only a few persons
Rik: me too, to only 3
Hank: ok - setrank allows you to change who can use certain commands
Rik: is it a server command 'setrank
Hank: the "ranks" are 3-god, 2-wiz, 1-member, 0-guest and java
Nuh@: ^Question?
Hank: if you want only gods to kill - you type - 'setrank 'kill 3
Hank: yes nuh?
Nuh@: Some palaces use a room to template thier scripts in Those scare me-- Are they ok?
Gyrithe©: :Wouldent it be possible to write a *gatekeeper* that allowes us to only let a few persons author?
Hank: yes - as long as there are no errors in it :-)
Hank: that's easy to do Gyr
Nuh@: you wouldnt get a conflict?
Gyrithe©: how?
Hank: password protect your rooms and only tell certain people the password
Gyrithe©: yes, thats what I do now...
Rik: i like it Gyrithe
Gyrithe©: but it is a pain in the but to lock and unlock all the time
Hank: I don't understand nuh
Gyrithe©: :And it is such a waste of time
Rik: yes it is
FrOsTy: what room are u pw protecting here
FrOsTy: just one
Hank: :an authorkeeper plugin?
Gyrithe©: I often feel I use most of my money to lock and unlock rooms :(
Nuh@: Well if not a problem , then I wont worry about but I keep my scripts in a seperate file
Rik: would be very helpful hank
Hank: we mean the password in the room info box frosty
FrOsTy: k
FrOsTy: got ya
Gyrithe©: :time = money for me
FrOsTy: thats why we work for a living G
FrOsTy: and play in palace
Gyrithe©: :An authorkeeper would be GREAT
Hank: ok since some people cannot be here later - any questions about the hacked client?
FrOsTy: Only know what I read in the palace mail list
Gyrithe©: :I play AND pay in palace ;)
FrOsTy: me too, no harm meant
Gyrithe©: Smile
Hank: no questions on the hacked client?
FrOsTy: yes, describe it to us
Steed~m~: yeah
Rik: only a general one. we have a complicated pserver.dat file that reduces hacking by hiding scray in a room they can't go back to, but we keep getting wiz and god kicked out. is there an easy way
Gyrithe©: It dont seems like any real threath to me Hank
Hank: I don't understand what yur tryin to do Rik
Rik: when person enters they go to one room where all scray and security is, then transport to gate
Rik: the script checks beenhere
Rik: if you wiz or god up, after entry, sometimes you get kicked out
FrOsTy: Ive seen where staff can come back on in a backdoor and change names and be ok
Hank: to make sure they can be allscrayed?
Rik: am wondering if there is a way to hide from hackers withoutout doing it the way we are
Hank: what do you mean hide from hackers?
Rik: yes hank
Rik: i mean hide the scripts from hackers
Gyrithe©: what are you hiding from hackers?
Rik: the first room information
Rik: we have a complicated scray
Hank: ok - the hacked client allows people to look at your scripts - IF AUTHORING IS ON
Gyrithe©: what is a scray?
Rik: it is possible to capture a god without being authorized
Hank: if yur not authoring - turn authoring off
Rik: maybe the gatekeeper will prevent that
Rik: allscray G
Gyrithe©: oh
Hank: does averyone understand what the hacked client is exactly?
Rik: what nuha was asking about, using templates, is because we hide a spot
Rik: that allows us to put 50 commands in a single spot
Rik: i like that, but am tired of being kicked out
Hank: kicked out?
Rik: yes, by our own script
Gyrithe©: :sounds too complicated for me
Nuh@: I was worried about haveing a lot of differient scripts in the same room
Rik: it is for me too hon, which is why i want to dump it
Steed~m~: it just alowes them to use the client side wizard commands right?
Hank: the best (and ONLY) way to hide scripts from the hacked client is to turn off author when yur not using it
Rik: ok Hank
Rik: we try to do tht
Rik: but i sometimes forget
Gyrithe©: :Why add 50 or more commands in one spot?
Hank: the hacked client is just a client with the wizard menu turned on - period
Rik: cuts down on number of spots in a room and takes much less space in pserver.dat
Rik: we do a lot of strnge things, lol
Gyrithe©: But no changes is stored
Gyrithe©: :by the hacked client
Hank: ok - a person with the hacked client - IF AUTHORING IS ON - CAN CHANGE PROPERTIES AND LOOK AT SCRIPTS
GRACE: sorry guys i need to go
Hank: opps sorry for the caps
GRACE: nice meetin u all
Gyrithe©: they can???
FrOsTy: take care Grace
Hank: seeya Grace
Rik: and can kill people from the palace, delete rooms and such
GRACE: k
Nuh@: samn here Grace
.«oolßhade.: laters
Danielle: cya sis
Rik: bye Grace
GRACE: i'll be back later sis
Hank: no Rik - they cannot do any of that
GRACE: bye
Rik: they can't Hank?
Hank: no
.«oolßhade.: the wiz menu is on...but they can't GOD up??...just use the wiz commands
Rik: i thought they could capture god authority
.«oolßhade.: :I'm asking
Hank: the hacked client does NOT give them actual god or wiz powers
.«oolßhade.: :that's what I thought
.«oolßhade.: just the MENU commands
Hank: just the menu
Gyrithe©: :I thought the changes they did was not permanent
Hank: correct Gyr
Rik: please explain how they are undone
Rik: if not permanent
Gyrithe©: :But...it would only take me 1 min to upload a backup...so I dont see a big problem
*** Sorry - you don't have the privileges to use that command
*** You now have god privileges.
Rik: if i am there, i agree Gyrithe
*** Operator Password Changed
Rik: i'm not there a lot of times, particularly at night
Hank: there is nothing permanent a hacked client can do to your server
Rik: DarkSun was hacked at Sin the other day. palace crashed
Rik: he could not restore and had to reload pserver
FrOsTy: he gets it all the time
Rik: how does that happen
Hank: a lot of crashes get blamed on hacking
Gyrithe©: Hank...do you recomment I should take of author when I am not there?
Nuh@: there ya go
Hank: absolutely Gyr
Gyrithe©: But....
Gyrithe©: then noone can author if an error accurs?
Hank: they simply turn it back on
Gyrithe©: and I cant be there 24/7
Hank: turn authoring on when yur using it
Gyrithe©: you see...
Hank: and off when yur not
Gyrithe©: thats why I want to give a few wizards access to author
Gyrithe©: :But not them all!
Hank: ok - but we're talking about blocking script access to hacked client users
.«oolßhade.: The only way that I know of to do that Gyrithe...if you trust them...is to make them gods...
Hank: yup
.«oolßhade.: then they can turn authoring on and off
Hank: and then limit authoring to gods
Danielle: yes
.«oolßhade.: right
Gyrithe©: yes....but it would be nice if one or two wizards could turn it on and fix things when I am away
Nuh@: wizards with god powers lol
.«oolßhade.: sure
Gyrithe©: :I dont trust noone that much
.«oolßhade.: hahaha
Nuh@: you tel them thier gods and they get big headed *S*
Hank: :it's a tradeoff Gyr
Gyrithe©: :yeah
.«oolßhade.: you can change the god command frequently
Nuh@: hahahaha
.«oolßhade.: and...
.«oolßhade.: if someone tries to kick YOU out
.«oolßhade.: you FTP a backup DAT file
.«oolßhade.: :or just change the header on the new one
Gyrithe©: I am not affread of beeing kicked out
Hank: does everyone understand the hacked client does NOT give anyone god powers?
Steed~m~: yep
.«oolßhade.: I knew that
Danielle: yes
FrOsTy: yes
Nuh@: yes
Gyrithe©: :But I dont wanna share my god status with anyone :)
.«oolßhade.: :there would be wretched anarchy all over main if it did...LOL
Nuh@: :she smart
Danielle: lol
Rik: i heard you say that Hank, but i did not know that
Hank: ok - the wiz pass here is "class"
Hank: anyone who wants to wiz up - go ahead
.«oolßhade.: Me me me me
.«oolßhade.: LOL
*** Page from System: .«oolßhade. made wizard
Steed~m~: hehe
Nuh@: what's here to see?
.«oolßhade.: :hey...I enjoy abusing power
Gyrithe©: :Soo...whats the prob?...last time we were granted godaccess??
Gyrithe©: :LOL
FrOsTy: this a test now
Hank: once you've wizzed up - look at the wiz menu
Rik: god pass must be teacher
Nuh@: ok
*** Page from System: Steed~m~ made wizard
*** Page from System: FrOsTy made wizard
*** Page from System: wizard .«oolßhade. created a new room (New Room 96)
*** Page from System: Nuh@ made wizard
*** Page from System: Gyrithe© made wizard
*** Page from System: Danielle made wizard
Hank: that stuff in the wiz menu is what the hacked clkient gives access to
.«oolßhade.: :anarcy
.«oolßhade.: :muah hah hah
Hank: there is no kill or pin or anything like that there right?
Gyrithe©: :I baked a cake for the class :)
*** Page from System: Rik made wizard
Hank: :OH BOY - MUNCHIS
Gyrithe©: right
Danielle: right
Nuh@: I have a kill
*** Page from System: .«oolßhade. made wizard
Hank: not in the wiz menu nuh
Rik: i see kill
.«oolßhade.: but hank
Nuh@: who wants to get pinned?
.«oolßhade.: if I go to user list...
Hank: yes?
*** Page from System: Nuh@ pinned by Rik
Rik: you do
.«oolßhade.: the KILL button is activated...it is NOT in the hacked client??
*** Page from System: Nuh@ unpinned by Rik
Nuh@: see what I mean?
Rik: i still don['t understand
Hank: that's because you really are a wiz now
.«oolßhade.: OK
Rik: ah haaaaaaaa
Nuh@: but but bubt
.«oolßhade.: :hmmm...
Rik: sorry nuha
Hank: a hacked client has the menu but is not really wizzed
Steed~m~: the pin and kill are server side commands, they dont work in the hacked client
.«oolßhade.: that's what I thought
Hank: exactly Steed
Rik: ok got it, thanks
.«oolßhade.: gotcha
FrOsTy: so exactly what does it give them
Nuh@: I thought you said that they wouldnt be ther
Nuh@: there
Gyrithe©: Hank, please try take godmode off
Hank: the server will check to see the person is really wizzed up before executing a server side command
Hank: huh?
Nuh@: Huh huh??
Gyrithe©: :I have for a long time wanted to try pin ya ;)
Hank: ah ok :-)
Rik: :lady wrestler
Hank: go for it
Nuh@: I must have misunderstood
Gyrithe©: :I cant :(
Gyrithe©: !YEAHHHHHHHH
Danielle: wn Hank
Gyrithe©: !I DID IT
.«oolßhade.: LOL
Nuh@: *S*
.«oolßhade.: ^checking something
FrOsTy: feel better G
Gyrithe©: :Thank you Hank...you made my day :))))
* .«oolßhade. * may I check something??
Rik: what a wrabbit
FrOsTy: so the hack client has the menu option but nothings activated
FrOsTy: what can they do then
Steed~m~: right
Gyrithe©: :I did not gag you
*** You now have god privileges.
*** Page from System: Hank ungagged by Hank
Rik: :i did
Gyrithe©: :I saw it was Rik
Rik: nods
Hank: ok - a hacked client can do 2 things
Hank: 1- they can execute client side commands
Hank: like ~clon
Gyrithe©: :Anyone can steal any prop anyway
Rik: yep
Hank: 2 - they can make TEMPORARY authoring changes - IF authoring is on
Rik: if they know how
Rik: why do you say temporary hank
Hank: that's it
Rik: what if we don't notice
Nuh@: screen cap
Rik: do they automatically reverse?
Hank: because when they log off the changes go away
Rik: interesting
FrOsTy: and thats from the Room Info Option?
Hank: right
FrOsTy: within the Wiz menu
Hank: right
*** Operators may not Author
Hank: ok - check the wiz menu now
FrOsTy: Ive seen at Sin where they are killing wiz and gods at the gate
FrOsTy: somehow
Gyrithe©: :author off?
FrOsTy: not sure
Hank: yup
Steed~m~: thats doen be a alscry comand
Hank: if you turn author of the hacked client cannot touch you
Nuh@: I see the same thing
FrOsTy: k
Hank: allscray is one way
Gyrithe©: :There are allscray protections scripts
Hank: you need to make sure yur allscray will not work for non wizzes
Steed~m~: yep, i have one in myself *s*
Hank: there is also the % hack
Steed~m~: % hack?
.«oolßhade.: :other than clone
Gyrithe©: What do that actualy do HAnk?
Hank: it's the oldest hack in palace
Steed~m~: havent heard of that one?
Hank: if someone has a % in their name - clicking on them will boot you
Gyrithe©: I have read a lot about it...but never got to know what it actualy do
Gyrithe©: is that all
Steed~m~: does it matter if you click from the userlist?
Hank: it's not a kill - it just causes the client to crash or log off
FrOsTy: does the % have to be first
Hank: no it can be anywhere
Rik: that's what i was trying to say we had, allscray protection, didn't know what to call it
Hank: the safe way to kill a % is.....
Rik: yep yep and my wiz and gods log off all the time by the script
Hank: do a 'list and kill by pating their name
Gyrithe©: There is also the trix sending a long textstring as page
Hank: pasting
Gyrithe©: :it makes all wizardsa and gods poof
Hank: never seen such a script Gyr
Gyrithe©: is not a script
Gyrithe©: is just a loooong page
Hank: that hole was patched long ago
Gyrithe©: :We had it at Utopia some time ago
Hank: dosen't work now
Gyrithe©: :is a way to see who is wizards and gods
Hank: as far as I know
Hank: will have to ask Ken at 5:-)
Gyrithe©: :I dont remember how long it have to be to work
*** ; Nuh@ is Painting
Nuh@: )boom
Gyrithe©: :Tandika explained it
Rik: hank, we had a problem where a wiz could not kill a client
Nuh@: oops
Rik: any idea why
FrOsTy: there is still a CGI whos on web site out there for that, if u havent stoped it
Hank: would need more info
Rik: was a member
FrOsTy: to see who is on and what status they are
Rik: all i know is this guy came in and deserved to be killed. the wiz clicked on him and kill did not work
Steed~m~: you have the addy for it?
Hank: !RUBY!!
FrOsTy: sure do
Gyrithe©: :pounders dont wanna look at websites...they like more brutal methods
Hank: what happened?
Hank: nothing?
Nuh@: worst I have had was a guy with a looping B L A S T script Named Terroriest
Rik: noting happened
Rik: he stayed there
ruby: !hi
FrOsTy: http://www.e-orchard.com/~jcr/palace/palaceuser.html
Captured a URL, see log.
I have captured a possible WWW address from FrOsTy: "http://www.e-orchard.com/~jcr/palace/palaceuser.html"
Hank: if the guy was lag scripting that could cause the kill to lag
Gyrithe©: Hello ruby
Steed~m~: ty frosty
FrOsTy: yw
.«oolßhade.: !!RUBY
FrOsTy: block the IP addy
FrOsTy: and it stops it
Rik: no, it didn't work at all, he was there 15 minutes
Danielle: hi Ruby
Hank: most times I check on that it turns out to be someone doin it wrong
Steed~m~: lol had many try to lag me out..being on a cablemodem helps
Rik: she tried both on list and on clicking
Rik: hi ruby
Hank: no idea Rik - would have to check the specific incident
Gyrithe©: :I hate my cable modem
Rik: i don't have any data
Gyrithe©: :it wont let me stay ofline on my pserver
Hank: wb lil
Rik: wb hon
Danielle: wb lil
lilone: thankyou all
Gyrithe©: wb lilone
Steed~m~: wierd
Rik: this is the wiz that had the problem Hank
Hank: hiya Lil
Rik: she tried to kill the guy and nothing happened
lilone: yes
Nuh@: Rik I have to Leave I have this logged to here
Hank: got any specifics?
Rik: k Nuh@ be well
Hank: seeya Nuh
lilone: be well
Rik: lilone, anything else you can tell Hank
Danielle: bye Nuh
Nuh@: thank you will see you this evening
ruby: cya nuh
Rik: kk
lilone: no just that it told lil that it can not be done at this time
*** Page from System: Nuh@ has logged off, 7 wizards remain(including you)
Rik: does that sound like a permissions problem?
Gyrithe©: you sure you were wizzed up lil?
lilone: yes was sure
lilone: it allowed lil to gag and pinn him
Hank: what did it say?
lilone: just not kill him when he would not stop
lilone: It said.....Kill request can not be done at this time....
Hank: never seen that one
Gyrithe©: never head that
ruby: nope...nor me
Hank: did it say something like "You do not have access to that command"?
*** ; g Hank 205.226.156.50 Class Hall
*** ; w .«oolßhade. 199.44.17.36 Class Hall
*** ; w Gyrithe© 195.249.27.28 Class Hall
*** ; w Rik 199.179.184.132 Class Hall
*** ; w Steed~m~ 24.95.182.7 Class Hall
*** ; w FrOsTy 207.59.134.5 Class Hall
*** ; w Danielle 204.116.97.41 Class Hall
lilone: ahhh...yes...but should have access as a wiz yes?
ruby: sounds like host permissions at mansion
Hank: try to kill me lil
lilone: am not wizzed up here
Hank: I know
Rik: wiz code is class hon
Hank: see if it's the same error you got then
ruby: :hank does NOT have a death wish...lol
Hank: no - without wizzing up
lilone: no had the option to kill just couldn't do it
FrOsTy: use the command line
lilone: no do not have that option to kill you
Hank: I just want to see if you recognize the error message
lilone: there is no message as lil does not have the option to use it to see an error
Hank: type 'kill Hank
lilone: no that wasn't the message
Hank: hmmm
Hank: ok then I have no idea :-)
lilone: said something like it can not be done
Hank: sounds like a bug
Rik: have you used it before or since hon
lilone: Never in Ar Master,,,and never had to try again
Rik: ok go kill someone and let me know
Rik: mayve Hank will come cvisit
Hank: :haha
lilone: you serious?
Rik: no hon
lilone: whew
FrOsTy: lol
Hank: we can go check it out if we're done
Rik: ok great Hank. thanks
Gyrithe©: ::)
Hank: anyone got anything else?
Steed~m~: q about the reportprefs
Hank: ok
.«oolßhade.: anyone who wants to check out the scripts
Rik: heh heh
FrOsTy: yes CS
Hank: Rik please don't take that prop
Rik: yes CS
.«oolßhade.: can find them at testpalace.dynip.com
Rik: won't hank
Hank: thanks
Rik: will never use it
.«oolßhade.: wizpass hank
Hank: yes Steed?
FrOsTy: thxs CS
.«oolßhade.: or I can email you the copies to study
.«oolßhade.: :279693
Steed~m~: in the prefs i see Pound Check Interval..but not turned on..how can i turn it on?
Hank: ok that's a trick one
Hank: tricky
Hank: even CC is not sure what pound interval does :-)
*** Page from System: Steed~m~ has logged off, 6 wizards remain(including you)
Rik: thanks very much Hank
Rik: was very interesting for me
Rik: learned a lot
Hank: np Rik
Steed~m~: hate getting booted when asking questions lol
FrOsTy: Wb Steed
Rik: palace is ar.chat etc
.«oolßhade.: LOL
.«oolßhade.: wb Steed
Steed~m~: ty
Rik: if you want to come in a few
Rik: lilone and i will be there
*** ; CURRENT PREFS:
*** ; Server Name: Access Internet (chatserve)
*** ; Allow Guests: TRUE
*** ; Allow Cyborgs: TRUE
*** ; Allow Painting: TRUE
*** ; Allow Custom Props: TRUE
*** ; Allow Wizards: TRUE
*** ; Wizards May Kill: TRUE
*** ; Wizards May Author: FALSE
*** ; Players May Kill: FALSE
*** ; Cyborgs May Kill: FALSE
*** ; Death Penalty: TRUE
*** ; Kill Flooders: TRUE
*** ; No Spoofing Allowed: FALSE
*** ; Allow Member Created Rooms: FALSE
*** ; Death Penalty: 120 Minutes
*** ; flushprop default: 21 Days
*** ; Kill Flooders After: 30000 Events
*** ; Max Users on server: 100
*** ; Max Users in room: 40
*** ; Picture Folder: media/
*** ; Maximum Guest Number: 10000
*** ; Save Session Keys: FALSE
*** ; Password Security: FALSE
*** ; Chat Log Enabled : TRUE
*** ; No Whispering Enabled: FALSE
*** ; Authenticate Users: FALSE
*** ; Pound Protection Enabled: FALSE
*** ; Logoffs sent to Authentication Server: FALSE
*** ; Allow Java members (only affects closed servers): FALSE
*** ; Auto Announcement:
*** ; Http Server URL: http://palace.chatserve.com/palacepub/media/
*** ; Avatar Server URL: http://palace.chatserve.com/palacepub/avatars/
*** ; Authentication Host Address:
*** ; Authentication Port: 0
*** ; Authentication Attempt Limit(0=Unlimited): 3
*** ; Pound Check Interval(0 = None): 1
*** ; Minimum User Level that can add props: 0
Rik: good to see you CS
lilone: be well All, thankyou
Rik: nice to meet the rest of you
.«oolßhade.: yes Rik
Steed~m~: did yu catch my question hank?
Rik: take care
Hank: yes
*** Page from System: Rik has logged off, 5 wizards remain(including you)
Hank: to turn pound protection on type 'poundprotect on
Hank: and leave pound interval alone
FrOsTy: looks like dating game starting on stage
Steed~m~: ok, thanks..didnt see it in the docs
Hank: it's not in the docs :-)
*** Page from System: Gyrithe© has logged off, 4 wizards remain(including you)
Steed~m~: that could be why then lol
Hank: even CC is not sure how it works :-)
FrOsTy: pound protect is off by default?
Hank: yup
FrOsTy: wow
Gyrithe©: :my cak unplugged my cable
Gyrithe©: cat
Hank: that's also not in the docs
FrOsTy: change request please
Hank: yikes Gyr
Hank: yes Frosty?
FrOsTy: that should be ON by default
Steed~m~: my cat did that once..makes a nice pelt now lol j/k
Hank: :I don't write the software :-)
Hank: actually CC tells me there is a "minor performance hit" if ya turn it on
Danielle: as in
Hank: they won't go into details :-)
Steed~m~: hehe
FrOsTy: cant win for loosing
Hank: cuz they don't know
FrOsTy: lag to death or get pounded to death
Hank: basically there is a lot of pound protection built in
Steed~m~: will test it on my palace first before suggesting it at islands
Hank: so I'm not sure if you need to turn that on
FrOsTy: ok
Hank: and CC is not sure either :-)
Steed~m~: gotta love undocumented features lol
Hank: yup :-)
Danielle: lol
FrOsTy: probably in the readme fine print
Steed~m~: was testing the web viewer the other day
Hank: they denied it was there till I cut and pasted a reportprefs to them
.«oolßhade.: probably in there as a reminder to MAKE it do something sometime
Hank: yup CS
Hank: wb Ruby
.«oolßhade.: :like RARE in the prop window
Danielle: wb ruby
Hank: rare actually does something
Steed~m~: found out if you send someone to hell that uses the web version, the can get out without needing to be freed
.«oolßhade.: wb ruby
ruby: ty....lagged off
.«oolßhade.: yes...not sure it's useful...
.«oolßhade.: but it does something
Hank: no argument there :-)
ruby: i dont think it was ever fully implemented?
.«oolßhade.: that's what I gathered
Hank: ok well I'm gonna go if there's nothing else
.«oolßhade.: :better change that wiz code
Hank: ya'all feel free to hang around and yack and pin each other:-)
.«oolßhade.: :or I will run amock
ruby: lol grythe
ruby: lol
Gyrithe©: :)
Gyrithe©: see you later hank
Danielle: ty Hank I learned a lot
Hank: ya'all will find that Gyr here is a script wiz
Steed~m~: thanks for the info hank
.«oolßhade.: true enough
ruby: cya hank
FrOsTy: thxs Hank
Gyrithe©: Smile
.«oolßhade.: laterz Hank...
Hank: so grill her after I'm gone :-)
FrOsTy: I got alot out of this
Steed~m~: lol
.«oolßhade.: :I did too...
FrOsTy: and met some new faces at the same time
Hank: by the way - my ICQ for emergencies is 1071680
Hank: but email to support is still the best way
Steed~m~: need to get back to islands. i'll talk to you all later
Hank: see y'all - thanks for comin
FrOsTy: take care Steed
Steed~m~: u 2 frosty
Closing Log